If raising taxes on the so called rich which 250k in ny ain't it pays for 8 days of spending and we still have a trillion dollar deficit on top of 20 trillion of debt, what has this solved exactly? How will raising taxes on the rich create jobs anyway? Government jobs? What about the deficit due to spending too much? Please answer and enlighten me.

Gary Faraci - you have every left wing, liberal Democrat talking point down to a tee. What is the Democrat's obsession with raising taxes? That is the one way to lose jobs and lessen government revenues. When the Bush tax cuts went into effect, government revenues skyrocketed to the highest levels in history. Even JFK knew enough to lower tax rates to stimulate the economy. The problem now is spending - something liberals never acknowledge. We have more people than ever receiving food stamps, medicaid, welfare, etc. Welfare is now the biggest budget item - well over a trillion dollars a year. You may think taking money from people who earn it to give it to those who don't share our work ethic is your idea of "progress" but that's my idea of socialism and the road to Greece.

Gary- in part I agree with you about the Wall St fraudsters, but citing Clinton' s realm has dubious connotations. Remember Clinton bought about NAFTA, which began the exporting of good paying jobs. Him and is wife wanted to reform the so called "entitlement" 3rd rail of politics programs, and he did cut defense spending. NAFTA was the beginning of the export of manufacturing jobs outside the country. People perceive the Clintons as liberals. Maybe that was true when they came to Washington, but today Bill Clinton is a believer in globalism(Globalist Initiative)

http://www.clintonglobalinitiative.org/

Clinton added 40 percent to the debt net of any budget surpluses in his last 2 years. In 2007 democrats took over congress and budget deficits exploded. Remember congress creates budgets. Today's trillion a year is a result of increased entitlement spending. Medicare adds 600 billion a year to national debt In nov 12 the fed budget had a 170 billion one month deficit. More than all of 2007 under the spender bush.

Cliff hardly.....more like a pothole.....

Here's the grand canyon. Obama's projected budgets

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/tables.pdf

in 2013 medicare/medicaid will spend 811 billon and take in less than 250 b in taxes.....smooth.....the rest borrowed from China.

it must be like being high all the time living in all of your fantasy worlds. bush tax cuts created millions of jobs and gave us the greatest economy since world war 2 (except for those unpaid for wars and medicare pt d as well as the $1.4 trillion in lost revenue from the useless bush tax cuts , the $1.6 trillion for the 2 bush wars and the $1.4 trillion in lost revenue for those same "tax cuts") then we all won the lotto and lived in gingerbread houses and lived happily ever after. the end.

now for those who live in the real world clinton created 22 million non govt jobs. more than reagan , daddy bush or bush jr combined. bush jr being the sad sack of jobs clocking in at 1.9 million jobs according to the bureau of labor statistics. oh i almost forgot bush and his wonderful economy left us with a $10 trillion deficit and 700,000 jobs a month going down the toilet when he left. but that obama you know he is evil and is making a deal with china and the commies to hand over all our assault rifles so they can conquer us. dont worry if you tighten your tin foil hats a little more i,m sure more wacky conspiracies will surface. lol

Frank

dont forget agenda 21, vaginal probes , legit rape, magic underwear, bridges to no where, oil subsidies, cutting SS and Medicare all wothy ratpublicon causes
didja know that christian conservative Sarah Palin was knocked up be for she got married
Tragg is now a devorcee after 18 long months and an out of wedlock kid
then you have Bristol who would be a welfare queen if not or mommy or on 16 and preggers
what a role model that Sarah is
dont forget she gets a check from oil profits making her a socialist
oh yeah Todds business partner was in her business lol

i agree . even worse the bitter sad sacks on this thread like no goode and the fantasy world of gary junstrom are on every thread including one nominating pastor applegate for her good work with their fox babble. hannity must have been running extra shows this week or something.

as for palin mc cain disgraced himself picking the car show model for vp.

Who did the books for the Bush admin?
Was it the folks on Lacey rd?
They werent very good at it either
The Bush Admin forgot to put the wars on the books

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/09/the-47-who-they-are-where-they-live-how-they-vote-and-why-they-matter/262506/#

read ppl turn off Faux news

obama put the bush wars on the books for the first time in 2009. once the over one trillion got added to the budget those like willy no good and junstrom ran around the house yelling " look obama spent over a trillion in one day alone!". now because of this 6% approval republican congress trying to protect the donald trumps out there from getting a whopping 3% tax increase the rest of the 99% of americans are going to see hikes of anywhere from $1,000 to $3,000 less back in their tax returns this year. the most vunerable the seniors and disabled will have many services cut . these dopes like mc connel cant even pass the farm bill which will now cost every american $8 for a gallon of milk on jan 1st. mitch the turtle mc connel in the meantime voted all themselves raises and their gold plated health plans wont even see a dent.

The fiscal cliff exists because Democrats would not make tax cuts permanent. How come tax cuts are always temporary, but tax hikes aren't? And what is so wrong with being rich? Who goes around saying, I want to be really really poor. I think we need to stop looking at rich people as the ones to soak every time our politicians cant do what the rest of us have to do all the time - make a budget and figure out how to stick to it. So maybe there are 'fat cats' on Wall Street, but they dont owe me anything. It is my employees - the politicians in Washington - who should be accountable.

this so call fiscal cliff could be easily solved by institution a flat tax for EVERYONE, not a higher tax for the rich and none for the poor, everyone should pay.

also instituting a $0.05 cent national sales tax on any sale over $10.00. no matter what the item is, no matter what the final cost is, any sale over $10.00 would have just one nickel added to the bill. So whether you buy a pizza or a new car, $0.05 cents would be added to that bill then it's just sit back and watch those nickels roll into the treasury.

This partisan bickering is laughable. Let me put it plainly. Both parties are equally responsible for the current mess this country finds itself in. The republicans spend enormously more than is required to defend this country. This includes monies spent on pre-emptive and unconstitutional wars (all with the tacit approval of the democrats) The democrats spend enormous sums on unconstitutional welfare programs (with the tacit approval of the republicans) And both spend obscene and criminal amounts on corporate welfare and crony capitalism while allowing the destruction of the US dollar by the federal reserve, which is currently printing 85 billion dollars a month of spanking new greenbacks to help "stimulate" the economy. This scuffle over the "fiscal cliff" is a smoke screen to distract from the fiscal calamity that is staring this country in the face. Neither the democrats nor the republicans are going to do anything about it.

"here is the graph of the 47% -- a.k.a. "non-payers" -- by state. The ten states with the highest share of "non-payers" are in the states colored red"
I hate these pesky facts it just makes it so hard for the right wing nut jobs to twist the facts since they all live in denial
anyone know how Bristol would have supported herself? WELFARE

How comforting to see liberals so completely dominate these blog comment strings...finally, reality, fact, reason, pragmatism, compassion, fiscal responsibility, accurate apportionments of blame/responsibilty prevail! This could mark the beginning of the inevitable marginalization and then demise of the pathetic remains of the once grand old party of reason and reality. It is been dead since 1994, rictussed since 2004, and now decomposing. Little putrid cells of anger, bigotry, frustration, and spite is all that remains - sustained in a petrie dish nourished by Fox News and a sickly, opportunistic coven of AM radio stations and internet websites. Here's to an honest, reality-based, rational, pragmatic party emerging from or outside of this morass to make things right.

Elaine - Good stuff - see also that the states that get the most federal money per capita are the deepest red....

¡Muchas gracias Elaine and Frank Rizzo! ¡You both ROCK!

¡Muchas gracias to I Have Spoken & Feliz Año Nuevo!

Elaine- you gotta get beyond the Clinton era rhetoric when is comes to job creation. One of best sources of examining jobs and their details is the BLS...

"Earnings and employment trends in the 1990s" - written in March, 2000

...The stagnation in real earnings for much of the 1990s stands in marked contrast to the considerable growth in employment during that decade. As of December 1999, the end of the period examined in this article, the current economic expansion had lasted almost 9 years. During that period, total employment, as measured by the Current Population Survey (CPS), grew by more than 16½ million.

Previous research, using data from the CPS, showed that employment growth during the first half of the 1990s was concentrated in both relatively higher paying and relatively lower paying job categories, with a decline in the number of jobs paying midlevel wages...

http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2000/03/art2exc.htm

Spooner
what you have to get over is your denial that the Bush admin Lied about Iraq
didnt put 2 unfunded wars on the books or Medicare part D or the interest
somehow shedding 700 k jobs a month was either Clintons fault or Black Jesus
I gotta tell you loved the you tube vides of Bush and Brownie and Bush position on housing Did like the facts I posted as to whom the 47 percenters really are?
22 million jobs created under the Clinton Admin and that the reality of it

Its 2013 its time to put down the Ratpublicon Kool Aid come out of denial.
reality is waiting

Where's Sam Samstie - Beautiful, poignant, devastating, and fun. You had to be stoned when your wrote it. Keep that bong torched and give us some more poetry, baby.

Robert Yates made sense about the responsibility of our elected public SERVANTS- not rulers. And he managed to do it without the snarky name calling that is a turn off. When some people indulge in 'St Ronnie', 'Ratpublicon', bashing Bristol Palin, who has never used welfare (though the child's father has) - even bringing her into the argument - shows that the party that says it promotes tolerance, diversity and is against 'hate speech' may need to go in for a little self examination.
The government operates on the money that we send them. A large percentage of high earners send them a larger percentage of their money than lower earners and a significant percentage file no income taxes at all. All the talk about 'fair share' never addresses those who pay no share. And when the government does not take in enough on taxes, they have to look to loans or print up more paper dollars to support all of their programs.
Now a sensible person faced with a budget problem would look at his balance sheet and ask: Is everybody who owes me money paying me? Do I want to take on the interest rate in a loan? How can I fulfill my obligations (in the case of the government, the Constitutional obligations) and what really are my needs versus my wants?
This is not about President Bush anymore, not about Bristol Palin, Wall Street or any of the other diversions thrown into the mix. It is about how our hard earned money is being spent and if our public servants could do a better job.

Eleanor - Right - It's not about Bush anymore as long as you acknowledge that we are still trying to clean up his mess (at lease one party is). It is though, as you clearly show, about people dragging down the economy, the discussion, the nation's spirit, by relentlessly blaming the least among us. And in your view, that is a big "least": 47% of your fellow Americans. You do it by falsely stating that they do not pay taxes (the fact is that everyone pays taxes). Relying on just one of many types of taxes to make your case is of course invalid. I assume you know better so that makes it deliberately disingenuous.
There is lots more fundamentally wrong with your position - foremost in the balance is that - typical of those who make your case - you completely neglect the essential matter of how would we deal with half of our population being denied any government assistance - including SSI, medicade and medicare, veterins bennies, disability, unemployment. And how would the costs to society of stopping those contributions compare to the current dollar savings?
But this is nuanced, reality-based thinking....not in your ilk's baliwick.
I say all of this knowing that it will not change your thinking one bit - other than to steel you up to defend it even more ferociusly and incorrectly.

Eleanor

try reading this
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/09/the-47-who-they-are-where-they-live-how-they-vote-and-why-they-matter/262506/

when your done with that
try this google corps that dont pay taxes
I see my posts have be erased by the folks on the right who dont want to see or read the Truth

Eleanor - someone erased your posts? I don't think it was those on the right because if you look to the right - there is no one there. Everyone seems to be to the left of you except Rand Paul - who by the way says idiotic, blatantly untrue things and is one of the tea party fools who don't even bother to find out what they are talking about. And how impressive that YOU, Elearnor are the speaker of the Truth!! That is also the problem with you Tea Party people, you think you have the Truth so you don't bother to hear anything that may contradict your so called Truth. Romney lost, Eleanor and I am sure the Tea Party reps who have tried again and again to destroy democracy by only adhering to their own particular Truth and not understanding that we have a system where compromise is necessary it is called checks and balances so no one Truth is adhered to - that is what Democracy is all about - a coming together of many truths - not just your Truth. And Sam Samstie, thank goodness you are back. Where have you been????

And if Bristol Palin did not have a family to back her up - she would have needed welfare and medicaid to help her get through her pregnancy and child birth and that is what our country is supposed to do, unless you want our country to be more like 3rd world countries where young women in that position either have to go out on the street and beg or prostitute themselves. Is that what you people want? Go travel to some 3rd world countries where you will see disabled people on the street begging - is that what you people on the right want? Well - the voters said, NO that is not the country we want So Eleanor - you are out!

Johnathan

any idea how Eleanor would try and spin this?
"There are some not-so-poor outliers, like the 7,000 millionaires who paid no federal income taxes in 2011. But for the most part, when you hear "The 47%" you should think "old retired folks and poor working families."

Right or Mitt's 13.5% on his many, many millions when the guy making $30,000 is paying 20% Eleanor is ruled by resentment -- but the trouble is - she resents the wrong people The poor have no power it is the rich who are manipulating and pulling the strings. Eleanor is one of the puppets maniupulated by the rich to keep them in power Resent the poor slob on welfare or the single mother with her kids on medicaid The problem with entitlements is Medicare - because old people -even those who are terminal get test after expensive test that they do not need - the doctors get rich and we all pay --- (and if medicaid is abused, who is getting the benefit besides poor people - the doctors that's who)

Jonathan - Nice.

BTW - Samstie is around but not back - you must have heard about his Sandy experience (breifly - tides came up while he was in the portapottie at the OC annex building - portabottie was knocked over and it, with Samstie trapped in it, were carried down Asbury until it wedged into the back alley at Readys where he was pried out and hosed down by the kitchen staff on Tuesday morning - long story and best told by him)....I think his buddy Al Terego may be writing again though.

Wow that's some tale bout Samstie's super storm experience. Those guys at Ready's are the best - to make such a sacrifice and do the dirty work of prying him out. Personally, I would have had to leave him there as he just shakes things up too much in OC and is way too opinionated. And wasn't he supposed to get out of town like he was told? I think I heard a rumor he was shacked up at Eleanor's house during the storm, (she didn't leave either) so I think the whole porta pottie thing is just a fabrication to keep everyone's stellar reputation from being tarnished. Maybe others would never put Samstie and Eleanor cuddled up together during the storm, but I see and it works for me. Try to keep this rumor under your hat with the several other nasty little tidbits that swirl around when things get boring in wintertime. The visual of Eleanor and Samstie kinda hurts too.

Eleanor - you seem to have missed the point. Point being, if a woman is single and pregnant and does not have a family to rely upon, she needs a little help - not for eternity but a little help for a while and that help can come from the government. I want my taxes to help her and her child. (I mean if she can't get a reality show - like your little friend Bristol who purchased an extemely expensive house and I don't think she got that working for $10 an hour in a doctor's office. ) And I have traveled extensively all over the world and you cannot compare the few and far between beggars in NYcity and anywhere in the US with what I am referring to in Africa and India - places like that where there is an entire population living in the streets or mud huts with no electricity. You don't know anything, Eleanor but you are incredibly judgemental and mean spriited and your phony concern about manners is laughable. It is bad manners to judge others - you know - the whole throwing the stones if you live in a glass house thing. You do not speak for women of this era. You speak for women from another time warp.

In observing this thread, I can't help but notice the sarcasm and vitriol of the pro Obama people. That is usually done to hide insecurities and lack of faith in a position. The sad part is - even if Obama took all the money of all the hated rich, he could only run the government for about 8 days. Obama cannot keep up this level of spending, tax hikes or not without the country eventually collapsing. He may get lotsa votes from welfare people, but if they are not contributing, they are just draining a finite pool of money. A parasite that kills its host does not have a bright evolutionary future. So the left-wingers who are doing high fives on this site remember, when this ship sinks, you go down with it.

Ok Eleanor - you win Samstie did spend the storm stuffed into a porta pottie and was blown down Asbury and taken out of it and hosed down by Ready's staff - he did not shack up with you. I am sure, however, it was his loss.

Elaine..I'm not into politics and arguing over it..I just have a bit of advice,while making your arguments,stick to the facts,don't pepper in "dis" and "dat" and "yo" and "St Ronnie" in your points and comments..You would sound way more intelligent and less like a 14 year old boy..IMO

Eleanor - Thanks for defending the honor and integrety of Sam Samstie - a true paytribute and protector of the middling class. There is no more devoted 1 placenta and part-time job creator in the puntitocracy.

http://oceancity.patch.com/blog_posts/sam-samstie-city-council-candidate-profile